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What makes a "cult" a "cult"? |
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A question was raised in another thread about whether or not classifying a religion as a cult was disparaging. I suppose that depends on a number of things, including the definition of "cult." So, in that spirit, it seemed appropriate to ask the question: "What makes a 'cult' a 'cult'?"
The Merriam-Webster dictionary offers the following five definitions of "cult":
Is this definition useful? On the one hand, the first definition covers every religion ever conceived. The latter definitions seem to revolve more around specific personalities. Where do you stand on this question? What makes a "cult" a "cult"...and is a "cult" necessarily a bad thing?
Posted on: 2003/12/2 8:21
Edited by Steven Shelton on 2005/3/13 8:11:24
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Re: What makes a "cult" a "cult"? |
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This definition is not what I consider to be my own personal definition of a "cult." Frankly, this definition could be used to describe even the most mainstream of faiths.
My own definition of a cult? A belief system that requires that adherents no longer exercise free will. They are given no autonomy in their decisions, nor do they have any say about their own lives. When I think of cults I think of Jim Jones or Heaven's Gate. I believe that we have been given free will, and the exercise of that free will is inherent in any legitimate faith.
Posted on: 2003/12/2 8:53
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Re: What makes a "cult" a "cult"? |
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Quote:
We just had a series on this at my church. A cult is any religious group that denies or distorts the teachings of Jesus Christ. This would include things like denying the virgin birth, the Trinity, Jesus's divine nature, that Jesus is the only way to salvation, etc. Our particular class focused on how some large cults specifically distort the teachings of Christ. For instance, Mormons teach that Joseph Smith was essentially "a second Christ." The Jehovah's Witnesses teach that there is no such thing as the Holy Trinity or an immortal soul, that Jesus was ever resurrected, or that Jesus was even God's Son. They also don't believe in Heaven or Hell. Like Lightsinger said, these cults (and some others as well) both are very focused on the people in power and don't allow disagreement from the "mere members," who are told to give all kinds of things to the leaders.
Posted on: 2003/12/3 8:03
Edited by Steven Shelton on 2005/3/13 8:11:51
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Re: What makes a "cult" a "cult"? |
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This definition is fine for those who are of a particular Christian faith, but it denies the legitimacy of other faiths in total. Is Islam a cult? Is the Hinduism or Buddhism a cult? No. These are faiths to which people have come, of their own free will, and in good conscience, without pressure or fear. These faiths serve a spiritual need in their adherents that is wholesome. Like other religions, they also have their fringe elements, and those elements can be cult-like. But the mainstream faiths are nothing of the sort. Yes, the Church of Later Day Saints disagrees with many other faiths, but that does not automatically qualify them as a cult. I have family and acquaintances who belong to the LDS, and they are some of the most devout and Christ-like people I've ever met. After some extended conversations with Jehovah's Witnesses -- oh yeah...invited them in, thought I'd never get them out of the house ;) -- I think there may be some misperception about what they actually believe. They do believe in Christ, and they believe He came back early in the 20th century, and they are waiting for Him to establish his kingdom here on earth, where He is to reign for 1,000 years. During that reign, mankind will be offered another chance to be redeemed (now who would be foolish enough not to take the hint at that point?). They may not believe in Heaven or Hell in quite the same way that others do, but they do believe in the immortal soul, and they do believe in Christ. I think your definition more properly describes what might be considered heretical, in the view of your own personal faith. But then, your faith may be heretical to another. I understand that for many denominations, it is necessary to condemn the faiths of others in order to affirm the belief that one has found the "one true path", I just don't happen to subscribe to that particular belief system.
Posted on: 2003/12/3 11:22
Edited by Steven Shelton on 2005/3/13 8:12:09
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Re: What makes a "cult" a "cult"? |
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LS makes a good point, Bubba.
What you are describing does sound more like differences in doctrine. I do not agree with LS, however. I don't agree that a cult is a religion that robs you of your free will. No one can rob you of Free Will, it is god given. You can however give it away. People choose to give away many things.
Posted on: 2003/12/3 12:45
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Re: What makes a "cult" a "cult"? |
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I have never said that a cult "robs" anyone of free will...only that it requires adherents to cease the exercise of free will...a very big distinction. Of course, free will is God given...it cannot be taken away. But if you hand your mugger the purse, are you any less "robbed" of it? How would you define a cult, Itanya? Are you saying that cults don't exist?
Posted on: 2003/12/3 14:44
Edited by Steven Shelton on 2005/3/13 8:12:38
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Re: What makes a "cult" a "cult"? |
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I'm going to be crucified for saying this, but I don't see other faiths (except maybe judaism) as "legitimate" bceause they all worship false gods. Quote:
Mormonism contains a great deal of distortions about Jesus and Christianity: - The concept of "eternal progression," that God was once a man and that men can also become "gods" - The idea that one must confess Joseph Smith as a prophet of God to be saved - The "heavenly mother" concept that God is married - "blood atonement": "It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit.... There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar, as in ancient days; and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, or a calf, or of turtle dove, cannot remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man." (Sermon by Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 53-54) In other words, no forgiveness of sins on the cross, and serious sins--which the Mormons include criticizing Joseph Smith or the Mormon church--require a person be bled to death. - they preach that there was no virgin birth - they preach that Jesus was married and had children (in other words, Jesus had sex) - God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three separate gods - Baptism of the dead Not only that, but they won't tell you any of this stuff until after you've been baptized in. It works a lot like scientology. I conclude, and again I am going to be crucified for this, that Mormonism is a cult. Quote:
Some of that may be true, but not all of it. Here are some other things to consider: - Jehovah's witnesses view "God" as a solitary person, not part of a trinity - They believe in reincarnation, and think that "Jesus" was sort of a demigod, a "lower guard" archangel - The preach that Jesus Christ did not resurrect physically but rather was resurrected as “glorious spirit creature” and his body dissolved into gaseous form. - They divide Christians into "two classes" and only one of them is allowed to go to heaven: the 144,000 people in the "anointed class" (chosen in 1935). The rest (the other class) get to inhabit the Earth again when they are reincarnated after the Armageddon. - They are run by a semi-monarchy called "God's Channel" or "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society" or "God's Theocratic Organization" or just "the governing body" (all synonyms for the same thing). One of the four requirements of getting to heaven, according to them, is to be a member of this organization, follow everything it says to do without question, and contribute as much money as the organization commands without question. I see them as a cult, too. Quote:
I don't think it's necessary to condemn anything. I am just pointing out why they are cults. You define a cult as something that's different, and that's okay, I guess. But the question was how we each define a cult, and now you know how I do!
Posted on: 2003/12/16 8:00
Edited by Steven Shelton on 2005/3/13 8:13:00
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Re: What makes a "cult" a "cult"? |
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Then I think we will have to agree to disagree on the subject of religion, Bubba. After all, if your mind is already made up that everything except what you believe is wrong, then what is there to discuss?
Posted on: 2003/12/17 12:25
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Re: What makes a "cult" a "cult"? |
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I was going to let this one go, but in retrospect, the post is so disrespectful of the beliefs of others, that I cannot allow it to pass unremarked upon.
Beelzebubba wrote: Quote:
Okay...I'll bite. What are you basing your argument for legitimacy on? The Bible? Well, that assumes that the Bible is the one and only revealed truth. You are certainly in good company to believe so, but Muslims and Jews are just as certain of the fact that their books are the only revealed truth. Muslims will go you one better: not only is their book devinely inspired...it is devinely written. Yes, that's right, God Himself wrote the Qu'ran and therefore there can be no alterations to it. Who would second guess God? It is surely a function of belief that each Christian or Muslim or Jew believes his or her book is the only true book. But unless you've talked to God Himself, it is strictly a matter of faith. And the faith of other religions is just as valid as your faith or mine. Quote:
Again, you are basing your presumptions on the belief that The Bible that YOU read, is the one and only revealed truth. Mormons believe that Joseph Smith received a second revelation from God, and that their book amplifies what went before. Sort of like a regular novel replaces a child's primer. Based on their understanding of scripture -- meaning their version of scripture, they are not deviating from Chrisitianity in any way. Quote:
Essentially, you are saying is, that if it isn't your understanding of your Bible, then it cannot be valid or legitimate. That's your belief. Others believe differently, and with as much conviction and heartfelt devotion. Quote:
I think that saying that every religion but your own is incorrect, distorting, or wrong, IS denigrating and disrespectful. It's a classic "My religion is better than your religion" statement, and while Sysop and our founder do not take exception to this, I have some problems with it.
Posted on: 2003/12/19 11:16
Edited by Steven Shelton on 2005/3/13 8:13:43
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Re: What makes a "cult" a "cult"? |
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Quote:
I can respect that you don't think any other religion offers a "legitimate" way to get to Heaven (or Valhalla or wherever it is you think good people go). I think it's a bit overbroad, though, to say that other religions are not "legitimate" as religions. If people genuinely believe that a specific set of spiritual practices and codes are proscribed by a deity, isn't that enough to make a religion "legitimate"? I think that's what Lightsinger is getting at. Quote:
Do you have a source so we can evaluate the validity of these claims about Mormon beliefs? (I want to make sure that Mormons are not being unfairly portrayed, here.) Assuming that your claims about Mormon theology are true, this raises an interesting question about your classification of "a cult." I'm not entirely sure how to express what I'm getting at here, so bear with me. Let's say you go to the First Baptist Church of Hooterville. There are twenty people in the church. I know from your assertion in another thread that you believe the abolition by Jesus of the "eye for an eye" philosophy was meant to apply only to individuals, and not to governments. Thus, one of your beliefs about the teachings of Jesus is that He taught "An individual should not engage in 'eye-for-an-eye' retribution, but governments should do so to create a deterrent to crime." (For the sake of efficiency, we'll call this "Teaching A.") There's another First Baptist Church down the road in Pig Suck that has thirty members. All of the members believe that the abolishment of an "eye for an eye" applies to both private individuals and governments. (For the sake of efficiency, we'll call this "Teaching B.") Since, in your opinion, this belief "distorts the teachings of Christ," does this make the First Baptist Church of Pig Suck a "cult"? Or, let's say there's a women's Bible study group and a men's Bible study group in the Hooterville Baptist Church. The men's group subscribes to Teaching A. The women's group subsrcibes to Teaching B. Is the women's group at the Hooterville First Baptist Church now a "cult"? Or, let's say that Bob, who sits next to you every Sunday, believes in Teaching B. Is Bob now a "cult of one"? Quote:
Again, I'd like to have a source for the assertions you are making. (For the same reasons; if a group is to be portrayed here, I'd like the portrayal to be accurate.) Quote:
Fair enough. I think, though, that you are applying your definition pretty broadly without considering the implications. Again, look at my example. Does a mere disagreement over dogma make one church a "cult"?
Posted on: 2003/12/29 11:37
Edited by Steven Shelton on 2005/3/13 8:14:23
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